**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 25 20:08:01 2002

May 25 20:08:01 -->   malaclyps (danny@216.218.247.89) has joined #infoanarchy
May 25 20:08:01 ---   Topic for #infoanarchy is PETITION FOR ORASIS SISTER JPEGS NOW | party! http://mozilla.org/party/2002/flyer.html | REBOOT FO THE MUTHAFUCKIN KERBEROS, DAWG! || School Jane To Went Monkey Apple Carbeurator
May 25 20:08:01 ---   Topic for #infoanarchy set by Ash at Sat May 25 16:37:08
May 25 20:08:21 <wmf> hey malaclyps 
May 25 20:08:26 <malaclyps>	    i'm sitting watching Cory Doctorow and Brad Templeton duke it out with Harlon Ellison at Baycon!
May 25 20:08:34 <wmf>		    awesome
May 25 20:08:37 *		    malaclyps plays "Horns of Shatner" trek fight music
May 25 20:08:45 <--		    shankar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
May 25 20:08:54 <wmf>		    Ellison needs a load of clue dropped on him
May 25 20:09:08 <malaclyps>	    i'll be your SMACKDOWN commentator for the next 30 fist-filled minutes!
May 25 20:09:10 -->		    shankar (~shankar@12-221-104-141.client.insightBB.com) has joined #infoanarchy
May 25 20:09:15 <kherr>		    Cool, Ellison is awesome.
May 25 20:09:28 <kherr>		    He's outdated in his thinking of copyright, but.
May 25 20:09:29 <dnm>		    malaclyps: Over what?
May 25 20:09:36 <jkl>		    hey dnm :)
May 25 20:09:59 <malaclyps>	    over DMCA and "Son of DMCA" --- weirdly, Harlon's dead against the DMCA ...
May 25 20:10:17 <wmf>		    doesn't he use it against ISPs?
May 25 20:10:17 <malaclyps>	    because he says that it stops him suing AOL for allowing his text to appear on their newsgroups
May 25 20:10:26 <wmf>		    ah
May 25 20:10:49 <AccordionGuy>	    Send in the ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC
May 25 20:11:23 <malaclyps>	    Wait - Harlon's revealed his Sith Master - AIiiiieee
May 25 20:12:21 <Loki>		    <Zerotheos> "I pulled over a thousand feet of cat5 cable scraps out of my school's dumpster recently. A crimper and a few
May 25 20:12:21 <Loki>		                handfuls of rj-45 plugs later, my apartment is a neon-blue rat's nest of network love. I have a cable going from
May 25 20:12:21 <Loki>				            my fridge to my coffee maker just because I can!"
May 25 20:12:46 <malaclyps>				    and Cory plays the "Brewster Kahle" trump card
May 25 20:13:16 <malaclyps>				    Harlon mutters that Brewster Kahle is "arrogant", pots and kettles walking out in protest
May 25 20:13:57 <malaclyps>				    it's a packed crowd tonight: lots of slightly overloud laughing and mullets in the audience
May 25 20:13:58 <kherr>					    Where are you watching this?
May 25 20:14:05 -->					    quinnums (~quinn@216.218.247.69) has joined #infoanarchy
May 25 20:14:11 <AccordionGuy>				    Is cory bouncing around like Yoda?
May 25 20:14:17 <wmf>					    aw, what a cute nick
May 25 20:14:41 <AccordionGuy>				    Is Cory delivering pimp-slaps from a distance using The Force?
May 25 20:14:43 <kherr>					    Crap, forgot to summon pizza.
May 25 20:14:58 <malaclyps>				    Cory is doing the looking broody, pre-bitchslap preparatory yoda phase
May 25 20:15:23 <kherr>					    Harlan Ellison isn't someone to mess with. I saw him verbally flay someone at a lecture once, because the hapless fool made a crack about Ellison's height.
May 25 20:15:50 <AccordionGuy>				    Evenly matched, this battle is.
May 25 20:17:00 <malaclyps>				    Harlon taking out the EFF, is. -- he's asking the EFF to get down that pirate that he and Jerry Pournelle are trying to hunt down
May 25 20:18:06 <kherr>					    What's Pournelle up to these days? Does he still pretend to be a technology pundit?
May 25 20:18:12 ---					    tvoj_gone is now known as tvoj
May 25 20:18:13 <malaclyps>				    www.jerrypournelle.com
May 25 20:18:38 <malaclyps>				    Harlon says that the EFF is the "police"
May 25 20:18:53 <wmf>					    no, the Police put out much better music
May 25 20:18:55 <malaclyps>				    Cory points out that they're a "free speech" organisation
May 25 20:19:21 <kherr>					    Augh, the Chaos Manor lives.
May 25 20:19:23 <quinnums>				    i'm just logging in to find out what's going on in this  conference
May 25 20:19:36 <malaclyps>				    Harlon is accusing the *EFF* of "shooting off their mouths". Pot and kettle form legal copyright action against him.
May 25 20:21:17 <quinnums>				    <antinews> wow this harlan guy is looney as a koot</antinews>
May 25 20:21:31 <Loki>					    anyone got a url to this ellison thing?
May 25 20:21:35 <malaclyps>				    brrr-proot fruit the crazyman said
May 25 20:22:20 <malaclyps>				    Harlon sez: make citizen arrests of copyright pirates
May 25 20:22:21 <quinnums>				    http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:57-zmkKwAyoC:harlanellison.com/KICK:25 <quinnums> brad blamed him for a child's death in africa, but harlan got out of it
May 25 20:25:34 <tvoj>					    no, I am The Vole of Justice
May 25 20:25:37 <quinnums>				    he said that no, he adopted umbawe and he's doing very well now
May 25 20:26:37 <silentfury>				    I'd tell that guy he should be put in a mental institution
May 25 20:26:52 <silentfury>				    putting people in jail over copyright vs violent crimes?
May 25 20:27:18 <silentfury>				    "Mr. Ellison, do you think that rapists should get less time in jail than people who violate copyright?"
May 25 20:27:18 <tvoj>					    that is a rather looney rant
May 25 20:27:21 <quinnums>				    oh, it's so far before even that
May 25 20:27:57 <tvoj>					    for one thing, he's screaming in ALL CAPS.  he belongs on AOL.
May 25 20:28:34 <silentfury>				    the trick is to show how much of a lunatic he really is
May 25 20:28:51 <quinnums>				    i wanna know how much money harland thinks he's lost to copyright violation
May 25 20:28:54 <quinnums>				    that not a trick
May 25 20:28:56 <dnm>					    malaclyps: Where is this? What is this?
May 25 20:29:04 <quinnums>				    it's not even worthwhile to do anymore
May 25 20:29:11 <silentfury>				    "Mr. Ellison, do you believe that murderers should get less time in jail than copyright violators?
May 25 20:29:28 <wmf>					    <malaclyps> i'm sitting watching Cory Doctorow and Brad Templeton duke it out
May 25 20:29:28 <wmf>					                with Harlon Ellison at Baycon!
May 25 20:29:34 <tvoj>							what's happening  now malaclyps?
May 25 20:29:40 <dnm>							I am not hip with the Baycon. WTF is it?
May 25 20:29:44 <quinnums>						everyone knows what an idiot/asshole ellison is
May 25 20:29:52 <wmf>							I'm guessing it's a sci-fi convention
May 25 20:29:53 <dnm>							He writes decent stories.
May 25 20:30:01 <quinnums>						yes, he does
May 25 20:30:02 <malaclyps>						kinda dull questions from the audience
May 25 20:30:02 <tvoj>							yeah it's a big annual scifi convention
May 25 20:30:15 <--							stevej has quit ("gotta run. bbl")
May 25 20:30:19 <dnm>							malaclyps: Who is left on the panel or whatever to answer questions?
May 25 20:30:25 <silentfury>						yea but you need to keep emphasizing how looney he is
May 25 20:30:28 <malaclyps>						someone made good answer to Harlon who says that techies should hunt down copyright infringers - pointed out that
May 25 20:30:29 <quinnums>						and has a hard time getting them published cause he's alienated half the publishing industry
May 25 20:30:29 <silentfury>						otherwise ppl forget.
May 25 20:30:37 <malaclyps>						they've been trying to hunt down spammers, unsuccessfully
May 25 20:30:40 <dnm>							quinnums: Funny, that.
May 25 20:31:05 <kherr>							Ellison is actually pretty cool. Remember that he was effectively banned by Spiro Agnew.
May 25 20:31:06 <malaclyps>						dnm: panel is = harlon, brad templeton chair of eff, laura majerus who is a IP lawyer, cory
May 25 20:31:16 <silentfury>						I've spoken with Brad before
May 25 20:31:20 <silentfury>						very cool guy.
May 25 20:31:24 <dnm>							What I want to know is 1) Where's Ray Bradbury to call the Internet a pinball machine when we need him, and 2) "Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear"?
May 25 20:31:26 <kherr>							He's just really wrong about copyright.
May 25 20:31:28 <malaclyps>						and an academic moderator (who seems weirdly biased toward the harlon viewpoint)
May 25 20:31:51 <dnm>							malaclyps: Has Cory (or anyone else) talked about ebooks yet?
May 25 20:31:52 <silentfury>						just get harlon to say that rapists should get less time in jail than copyright violators
May 25 20:32:00 <quinnums>						he's also a genuinely mean person a lot of the time, and another notorious sci-fi misogenist
May 25 20:32:06 <malaclyps>						Lara already said that it's weird that there's no *anti*copyright people on stage
May 25 20:32:07 <silentfury>						now that would be icing on the cake.
May 25 20:32:24 <malaclyps>						dnm: not yet
May 25 20:32:33 <dnm>							Is anyone really anti-copyright? I'm not, I don't think.
May 25 20:32:44 <malaclyps>						quinnums is
May 25 20:32:47 <quinnums>						there aren't many of us anti-copyright people out there
May 25 20:32:51 <dnm>							malaclyps: Can you perhaps proxy ask a question for me?
May 25 20:32:58 <malaclyps>						dnm: sure
May 25 20:33:03 -->							devzero (~devzero@dsl-65-186-37-105.telocity.com) has joined #infoanarchy
May 25 20:33:03 <wmf>							Ian Clarke is anti-copyright
May 25 20:33:17 <malaclyps>						John Perry Barlow is anti-copyright. I ... waver
May 25 20:33:23 <kherr>							I am, I know of at least one other who is.
May 25 20:33:55 <malaclyps>						harlon is sitting quiet, looking like he's surrounded by idiot humans. again.
May 25 20:34:17 <silentfury>						malaclyps: ask ellison if rapists should be given less time in jail than copyright violators.
May 25 20:34:21 <dnm>							malaclyps: This is pretty general, but I'm curious to know what everyone thinks of eBooks as applies to copyright, but in the context of, if I write an eBook and claim copyright, where do I stand today. Or, for hillarious effect, alter the question to rile people up.
May 25 20:34:39 <malaclyps>						dnm: not sure i understand your question
May 25 20:34:42 <quinnums>						he has a dent in his forehead from where he holds his head in frustration all the time
May 25 20:34:43 <dnm>							malaclyps: I'm out of the loop on what would be the most incindiary eBook related question to ask.
May 25 20:35:08 <dnm>							malaclyps: Well, I'm curious to know what each of the panel thinks about eBooks, but I want to stir the shit.
May 25 20:35:19 <dnm>							malaclyps: And just asking "what about eBooks" is too general.
May 25 20:35:23 <silentfury>						also, ask ellison what he thinks of a microchip implanted in each human being that would kill them if they violated copyright.
May 25 20:35:34 <silentfury>						if he was for that, that would be hilarious.
May 25 20:35:51 <dnm>							malaclyps: I'll try to think of something more apropos.
May 25 20:35:53 <malaclyps>						silentfury: have you read Noir by K. W. Jeter? Now there's a guy who actually thinks people should be killed for copyright infringement
May 25 20:35:54 <quinnums>						i think even harlan might notice that kind of baiting
May 25 20:36:24 <dnm>							quinnums: What's your elevator pitch about anti-copyright?
May 25 20:36:28 <silentfury>						malaclyps: seriously?
May 25 20:36:34 <silentfury>						I didn't think anyone was that bad
May 25 20:36:43 <quinnums>						i don't have an elevator pitch, but i suppose i should
May 25 20:36:53 <malaclyps>						silentfury: seriously.
May 25 20:36:57 *							silentfury labels K.W. Jeter as a threat to the human race.
May 25 20:37:06 <silentfury>						hey Dubya! go get em!
May 25 20:37:13 <malaclyps>						i think the feeling may be mutual, unfortunately :(
May 25 20:37:26 <malaclyps>						good author though
May 25 20:37:41 <malaclyps>						god this moderator is annoying
May 25 20:37:46 <quinnums>						how about: in an age of ubitqutous access to info, copyright becomes a repressive regine to keep information out of the hands of the people who need it most, for instance minorities and the third world populations
May 25 20:37:48 <dnm>							malaclyps: Ooh. How long does each member of the panel who writes material covered under copyright and who earns money from such expect to make a living off of his or her copyright in say, ten years.
May 25 20:38:06 <malaclyps>						Harlon: an "audience of scofflaws"
May 25 20:38:24 <malaclyps>						Harlon to Brad: "do not pull funny faces, motherfucker, when I'm talking"
May 25 20:38:25 <dnm>							malaclyps: I'd retort with "we keep you in bread and circuses"
May 25 20:38:35 <silentfury>						he called him a motherfucker?
May 25 20:38:40 <malaclyps>						yup
May 25 20:38:41 <silentfury>						not smart.
May 25 20:38:42 <quinnums>						fuuuuuck
May 25 20:39:01 <silentfury>						what i wouldn't do for force-grip sometimes.
May 25 20:39:27 <dnm>							malaclyps: If I had money, I'd pay you a vast sum to rush the stage and either pie or punch Ellison the fuck out right now.
May 25 20:39:49 <dnm>							malaclyps: What questions is the audience asking?
May 25 20:39:56 <malaclyps>						harlon: "I have never taken anything of an internet"
May 25 20:40:09 <silentfury>						how can people take this guy seriously
May 25 20:40:16 <malaclyps>						harlon *really* winning over the audience now
May 25 20:40:37 <dnm>							quinnums: Hrm. I'd say that's only excessive copyright enforcement. I see copyright as legal credit where credit is due, and a defense against having people purloin one's work.
May 25 20:40:46 <quinnums>						ah
May 25 20:40:57 <quinnums>						i don't believe in the author's right to credit
May 25 20:41:01 <quinnums>						but like i siad
May 25 20:41:02 <dnm>							malaclyps: Really? What is he speaking to that the audience agrees with so much?
May 25 20:41:05 <malaclyps>						i wish i was taping this
May 25 20:41:09 <quinnums>						i don't have an elevator pitch
May 25 20:41:18 <malaclyps>						dnm: no, being sarcastic. he just accused them all of being scofflaws
May 25 20:41:31 <dnm>							quinnums: Agreed to a point, which is why I was somewhat ambivalent about putting myself firmly on either side of the fence.
May 25 20:41:49 <dnm>							malaclyps: And they liked that? I guess I'd have to be there to understand.
May 25 20:42:03 <dnm>							malaclyps: Oh wait. Duh. Never mind, I'm dumb.
May 25 20:42:09 <malaclyps>						dnm: no, i was just joking. at that point the audience was shouting at harlon
May 25 2:42 <dnm>							quinnums: I think, more basically, that a culture of credit is pretty piss-poor.
May 25 20:43:00 <dnm>							quinnums: But I haven't done enough serious thinking and debate to shore up my position and outlook.
May 25 20:43:00 *							tvoj thinks we will all be happier if we just chip in for halan's medication and be done with t
May 25 20:43:02 <tvoj>							it
May 25 20:43:10 <silentfury>						the only rights i think an author should have is recognition for their work.. or moral rights.
May 25 20:43:12 *							dnm tries to think of a half-decent question
May 25 20:43:38 <silentfury>						hm
May 25 20:43:41 <malaclyps>						dnm: if i can, i'll ask the question about making money in ten years time
May 25 20:43:45 <silentfury>						do you think Ellison would know about Noir by Jeter?
May 25 20:43:50 <malaclyps>						not sure
May 25 20:44:13 <dnm>							malaclyps: Cool, thanks.
May 25 20:44:27 <dnm>							You NTK people go to all the cool shows. ;]
May 25 20:44:28 <silentfury>						"What do you think of KW. Jeter's views on violating copyright in "Noir" ?
May 25 20:44:38 <silentfury>						if he doesn't know and agree, boom
May 25 20:45:10 <dnm>							How old is Ellison now? I forget. I last saw him on what I think was the last Late Late Show with Tom Snyder years back.
May 25 20:45:16 <malaclyps>						dnm: he's about 68
May 25 20:45:28 <malaclyps>						he was really young when he started
May 25 20:45:31 <silentfury>						hrm. so how's his heart?
May 25 20:45:36 <dnm>							I think that still makes him junior to Bradbury, who is like 80 now, IIRC.
May 25 20:45:43 <silentfury>						maybe we could induce a heart attack by getting him riled up.
May 25 20:45:54 <Loki>							Hard to get him riled up, I'd imagine.
May 25 20:45:56 <dnm>							How old is Delaney? I wish he was there. He'd probably have somethign more intelligent to say.
May 25 20:45:56 <silentfury>						"death by copyright"
May 25 20:46:14 <malaclyps>						harlon is claiming that he can hack down any user
May 25 20:46:21 <dnm>							?
May 25 20:46:26 <silentfury>						hack down any user? or track
May 25 20:46:33 <dnm>							H4r10n 311i50n
May 25 20:46:34 <malaclyps>						hack into their computers and shut down pirates
May 25 20:46:34 <quinnums>						dnm: i'm thought about it a lot about it, but not enough to encapsulate it in a short speech
May 25 20:46:57 <silentfury>						heh
May 25 20:47:00 <dnm>							quinnums: Sounds like a conversation best had over good beer.
May 25 20:47:06 <silentfury>						doesn't he know it's a life sentence in jail for hacking ? :)
May 25 20:47:19 <malaclyps>						a question from a librarian (she said she was a librarian and got an *instant* round of applause)
May 25 20:47:30 <silentfury>						librarian's rock
May 25 20:47:36 <malaclyps>						silentfury: ISP guy in the audience promised to "take him down if he does that to my customers"
May 25 20:47:39 <quinnums>						it's just something i've got to write up and put on the net. with no name on it :)
May 25 20:48:11 <malaclyps>						librarian asks about doctrine of fair sale, and how that works in the digital world
May 25 20:48:13 <wmf>							that reminds me... I noticed that whywork has no name on it
May 25 20:48:22 <silentfury>						malaclyps: ask him if he's aware of the laws regarding hacking in the USA Patriot Act
May 25 20:48:35 <dnm>							silentfury: That gets off topic quickly.
May 25 20:48:45 <quinnums>						why work needs more love
May 25 20:48:52 <quinnums>						there isn't anyone behind it anymore
May 25 20:49:20 <silentfury>						not if he said he could hack any user
May 25 20:49:30 <dnm>							I'm still curious about what such an ensemble of _speculative thinkers_ who make money by the good graces of profitable copyright plan to do to continue to eat in a decade.
May 25 20:49:39 <malaclyps>						dnm: will ask now
May 25 20:49:50 <dnm>							malaclyps: You rock.
May 25 20:50:18 <silentfury>						you know what would be funny
May 25 20:50:20 <dnm>							I hope Ellison gets into a tiff. I'd have for him to reply with something lame and off the cuff.
May 25 20:50:32 <silentfury>						doesn't Turkey have really really really strict computer laws
May 25 20:50:35 <silentfury>						like hacking is death 
May 25 20:50:48 <quinnums>						they almost called security on him ealier... it was wild...
May 25 20:50:50 <dnm>							silentfury: I think Turkey has really really strict everything laws.
May 25 20:51:00 <dnm>							quinnums: You there as well?
May 25 20:51:01 <silentfury>						be funny if ellison "hacked" someone in turkey
May 25 20:51:04 <silentfury>						and they extradited him.
May 25 20:51:05 <quinnums>						yes
May 25 20:51:10 <quinnums>						next to mala
May 25 20:51:15 <dnm>							quinnums: Sweet.
May 25 20:51:36 <dnm>							quinnums: Sad to have missed meeting you folks at ETCON. Cory's talked about you and I was looking forward to it.
May 25 20:53:30 *							silentfury thinks the strategy should be to induce a heart attack by riling him up.
May 25 20:53:45 <quinnums>						harlan is useful
May 25 20:53:49 <silentfury>						now that would be poetic justice.
May 25 20:54:07 <silentfury>						useful? sounds like the idiot is useful at wasting space and resources
May 25 20:54:09 <silentfury>						nothing more.
May 25 20:54:12 <tvoj>							silentfury: would matter little, since a crotchety-old-coot vacuum would form and be filled instantly
May 25 20:54:25 <dnm>							You need a Devil's Advocate.
May 25 20:54:40 <malaclyps>						dnm: harlon says you've asked a stupid question
May 25 20:54:50 <dnm>							Preferrably a smart one too, like Ellison.
May 25 20:54:50 <quinnums>						harlan exists in a space that could be oppupied by someone far more dangerous
May 25 20:54:50 <malaclyps>						moderator has rewritten it
May 25 20:54:53 <dnm>							malaclyps: I would expect nothing less.
May 25 20:55:00 <dnm>							malaclyps: Oh? To what?
May 25 20:55:07 <dnm>							malaclyps: Moderator?
May 25 20:55:16 <malaclyps>						mderator says "What would life be like without copyright"
May 25 20:55:26 <dnm>							malaclyps: Lame!
May 25 20:55:45 <dnm>							malaclyps: That's not very bright.
May 25 20:55:51 <dnm>							malaclyps: And it's also not what I asked. *sigh*
May 25 20:55:57 <tvoj>							rather swift moderator there
May 25 20:55:58 <dnm>							malaclyps: Thanks for trying though, I do appreciate it.
May 25 20:56:34 <silentfury>						hm
May 25 20:56:41 <malaclyps>						harlon: pan and columbian univ did study of freelance writers - reavealed that 6000 authors create all of the published content
May 25 20:56:49 <dnm>							malaclyps: This reminds me of those question and answer sessions where the questions are all palateable and the answers all rhetoric.
May 25 20:56:50 <quinnums>						no, 90%
May 25 20:56:55 <quinnums>						he said 90%
May 25 20:56:56 <malaclyps>						ok
May 25 20:57:16 <silentfury>						how about "If you claim you can track down and hack any pirate, how come you haven't located Osama Bin Laden?"
May 25 20:57:34 <malaclyps>						harlon says, in summary, authors do not make much money
May 25 20:57:38 <quinnums>						and he said they earn 2600 a year, but i think he accidently left off a 0
May 25 20:57:48 <silentfury>						duh, that's the publishers who rape them
May 25 20:57:49 <quinnums>						and every thinks they make a fortune
May 25 20:58:12 <Loki>							Harlan Ellison prolly has a decent fortune, and stephen king.
May 25 20:58:16 <Loki>							Most authors don't.
May 25 20:58:16 <malaclyps>						i don't understand why this helps his argument
May 25 20:58:43 <silentfury>						malaclyps: do you think that would be a good q regarding bin laden?
May 25 20:58:46 <dnm>							malaclyps: How do you go about asking questions? Is there some mediated interface people are typing them into for the moderator?
May 25 20:58:55 <malaclyps>						no, i raised my hand and asked
May 25 20:59:04 <tvoj>							i guess he doesn't express much confidence that other means of distributing creative works could result i a living wage
May 25 20:59:06 <malaclyps>						they liked it that the internet had a question to ask
May 25 20:59:14 <silentfury>						i would expect one of two responses
May 25 20:59:18 <silentfury>						"Who is osama bin laden"
May 25 20:59:19 <dnm>							malaclyps: Ah. And only Ellison had a non-response?
May 25 20:59:32 <dnm>							malaclyps: Indeed. The Internet has many questions.
May 25 20:59:32 <malaclyps>						dnm: harlon's kinda hijacked the answer
May 25 20:59:49 <silentfury>						malaclyps: how about "If you claim you can track down and hack any pirate, how come you haven't located Osama Bin Laden?"
May 25 20:59:51 *							dnm wonders if feedharlonellison.com is taken
May 25 21:00:05 <quinnums>						heheheheheh gooooood dnm
May 25 21:00:21 <malaclyps>						feedharlonellison to cyber pirates
May 25 21:00:31 <silentfury>						wipo would fuck u over tho
May 25 21:00:32 <tvoj>							heh
May 25 21:00:33 <silentfury>						:(
May 25 21:01:18 <silentfury>						malaclyps: is my question a little too out-there? :)
May 25 21:01:42 <malaclyps>						silentfury: i think i've blown my wad in the question asking capacity
May 25 21:01:50 <dnm>							malaclyps: The Internet would like to know what it has done to Harlon Ellison to invoke such unmititgated wrath beyond provide such services as amazon.com with which he continues to rake in the bucks.
May 25 21:01:51 <silentfury>						quinn?
May 25 21:02:28 <malaclyps>						dnm: he says he's not pissed off at the Internet
May 25 21:02:41 <dnm>							silentfury: I'd hate to ask an Osama bin Question at a scifi con.
May 25 21:02:59 <silentfury>						this is a sci-fi con?
May 25 21:03:02 <malaclyps>						harlon - "my outrage would be the same as if i was talking to someone living under a tyrant, saying they can't change anything, and making money out of the current situation"
May 25 21:03:03 <silentfury>						wtf is ellison doing there
May 25 21:03:23 <dnm>							malaclyps: Oh? Is this like child abuse then? He's not really hurting me, he loves me?
May 25 21:03:38 <malaclyps>						harlon: "you don't understand that there are *people* involved"
May 25 21:03:55 <dnm>							I understand he doesn't understand there are people involved, and you are but one.
May 25 21:04:23 <malaclyps>						silentfury: harlon ellison is "Special Guest" here
May 25 21:04:32 <malaclyps>						wooh it's getting hot in here
May 25 21:04:46 <malaclyps>						harlon promises this will be the last thing he will say
May 25 21:04:46 <dnm>							s/you are/he is/
May 25 21:04:50 <silentfury>						dnm: my point by asking that type of question would be to show how much of an idiot he already is. :)
May 25 21:05:21 <dnm>							silentfury: Yeah, but you need to at least wage war on the same relevant turf. Comments like him hacking users are just meant as misdirection anyway.
May 25 21:05:39 <malaclyps>						harlon summary: most of the people who come to this con don't give a shit about science fiction
May 25 21:06:03 <malaclyps>						harlon: sf has become the feeding ground for many small fandoms, videogamers, wargamers
May 25 21:06:30 <silentfury>						people also come to sf cons to dream about a world of which he isn't a part of.
May 25 21:06:33 <dnm>							malaclyps: harlon doubletalk descrambled: "most of the people who came to this con don't give a shit about my science fiction, the only science fiction worth anything"
May 25 21:07:20 <dnm>							My opinion of Harlon Ellison has dropped like 92304572934574392349e39 percentage points in the last half hour.
May 25 21:08:02 <silentfury>						be funny if someone called the county mental health centre on this guy
May 25 21:08:11 <tvoj>							that's it for harlan?
May 25 21:08:23 <tvoj>							er harlon. 
May 25 21:08:38 <malaclyps>						quinn asked what about people who can't afford stuff that's under copyright
May 25 21:08:44 <dnm>							malaclyps/quinnums: What was the reaction/fallout from Ellison calling Templeton a motherfucker anyway?
May 25 21:08:45 <malaclyps>						moderator has rewritten the question again
May 25 21:09:05 <dnm>							And will someone fucking gag this Stalinist moderating bitch?!
May 25 21:09:05 <malaclyps>						dnm: everyone worked really hard to calm them down
May 25 21:09:21 <malaclyps>						dnm: i'm probably being a bit hard on him
May 25 21:09:24 <silentfury>						really?
May 25 21:09:27 <malaclyps>						dnm: he's got a scary job
May 25 21:09:31 *							silentfury would like to see Brad kick his ass.
May 25 21:09:32 <dnm>							malaclyps: True.
May 25 21:10:09 <silentfury>						how cans at they just took down our table number and let us ask the questions from the mic we had at the table.
May 25 21:12:37 <dnm>							silentfury: It's inefficient if you want to ask questions. It's efficient if you want to control ruckus and lame questions deisgned to troll.
May 25 21:12:56 <silentfury>						true.
May 25 21:13:19 <dnm>							quinnums's question is important, I wish someone had actually asked it verbatim and gotten an intelligent answer.
May 25 21:13:37 <dnm>							I suppose Ellison, being the age he is, is all about Capitalism Now
May 25 21:13:40 <malaclyps>						basically the last five minutes has been quinn trying to ask her question again, and have it elided over
May 25 21:13:46 <dnm>							But that's perhaps a bit hasty of me.
May 25 21:13:48 <tvoj>							dnm: which question?
May 25 21:14:02 -->							AaronSw (~Snak@63.149.73.20) has joined #infoanarchy
May 25 21:14:05 <dnm>							tvoj: What about people who can't afford works under coypright
May 25 21:14:11 <AaronSw>						did somebody say copyright panel?
May 25 21:14:14 <malaclyps>						hehe
May 25 21:14:15 <tvoj>							dnm: oh yeah
May 25 21:15:49 <malaclyps>						question to audience: how many have infringed copyright (lots), how many felt bad about it (not many), how many did when they were ignorant and now won't do it again (a few)
May 25 21:16:12 <wmf>							hey AaronSw, you're in the right channel
May 25 21:16:30 <malaclyps>						harlon is still after citizen 513
May 25 21:16:39 <dnm>							malaclyps: That pre-supposes a working knowledge of all of copyright law everywhere. The logic is faulty. Ellison has surely jay-walked in his lifetime without feeling guilty about it.
May 25 21:16:46 <silentfury>						how many people think harlon ellison is a total lunatic who doesn't deserve to be human
May 25 21:16:55 *							silentfury sees everyones hand up
May 25 21:17:16 <dnm>							silentfury: You're ad hominem-ing
May 25 21:17:21 <malaclyps>						harlon offers five grand for citizen 513 leading to his arrest and condition
May 25 21:17:36 <dnm>							"I am Citizen 513" a la Sparticus.
May 25 21:18:05 <Loki>							I am TK-421!
May 25 21:18:21 <silentfury>						I am Darth Vader
May 25 21:18:28 *							dnm makes t-shirts on CafePress reading "I am Citizen 513"
May 25 21:19:43 ---							No ping reply for 91 seconds, disconnecting.
May 25 21:19:43 ---							Disconnected ().
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 25 21:19:43 2002
May 25 21:21:36 <quinnums> is anyone blogging the 5k reward? must happen... quickly... :)
May 25 21:21:36 <quinnums> can't get to my damn server... argh!
May 25 21:21:48 <--	   malaclyps has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
May 25 21:21:51 <ntkboy>   oh, btw, harlon says you're all "very funny" for the Spartacus joke and that he'll talk to you after puberty
May 25 21:21:56 ---	   You are now known as malaclyps
May 25 21:21:56 -NickServ- This nickname is owned by someone else
May 25 21:21:56 -NickServ- If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
May 25 21:22:04 >NickServ< IDENTIFY il1ken1cks
May 25 21:22:04 -NickServ- Password accepted - you are now recognized
May 25 21:22:04 ---	   services. sets mode +e malaclyps
May 25 21:22:04 -MemoServ- You have no new memos
May 25 21:22:21 <Loki>	   Puberty scares me.  I don't plan on doing it.  Ever.
May 25 21:22:53 <dnm>	   http://www.cafepress.com/citizen513
May 25 21:22:54 <--	   dri has quit ()
May 25 21:23:38 <Loki>	   So, it's Ellison's joke about "any random citizen" ?
May 25 21:23:54 <silentfury>   anyway it's been fun
May 25 21:23:59 <silentfury>   i'm hittin the sack
May 25 21:24:45 <dnm>	       It's time like this I wish I had Photoshop.
May 25 21:25:01 <dnm>	       Microsoft Photo Editor wont let me insert text.
May 25 21:25:05 <dnm>	       But I do have Paint.
May 25 21:25:43 <malaclyps>    phew!
May 25 21:25:47 <malaclyps>    okay, fights over...
May 25 21:26:11 <malaclyps>    he's just exchanged cards with the ISP guy
May 25 21:26:28 <dnm>	       Why are all my generic close dialog warnings in German now? I blame Qpad.
May 25 21:26:33 <malaclyps>    he says he's going to sue those motherfuckers as soon as his "hellhounds" see anything infringing on their site
May 25 21:27:07 <malaclyps>    i don't know, i think the most interesting bit about this was the audience
May 25 21:27:18 <dnm>	       I really don't like it when my PowerBook randomly decides not to power on.
May 25 21:27:36 <malaclyps>    who were admitted infringers, but pro-authors - harlon got applause and booed
May 25 21:27:44 <malaclyps>    in equal measures, i think
May 25 21:27:44 <dnm>	       Hrm.
May 25 21:28:03 <dnm>	       Ejecting the battery allows me to turn it on. Strange.
May 25 21:28:10 <Loki>	       odd
May 25 21:28:18 <dnm>	       This is the second time it's done this.
May 25 21:28:31 -->	       burtonator (~burton@adsl-67-112-30-210.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #infoanarchy
May 25 21:28:36 <dnm>	       The battery is only holding an hours worth of charge too, but this was in sleep mode and on mains.
May 25 21:28:57 <dnm>	       And when I go to turn it on, it's _off_, but the battery is fully charged and it's still on mains.
May 25 21:29:03 <--	       jkl (~k@ool-18bb3e4f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #INFOANARCHY
May 25 21:29:09 <dnm>	       Only ejecting the battery and then pressing power on gives me any joy.
May 25 21:29:28 <dnm>	       malaclyps: Weird. What's the mood like now?
May 25 21:29:34 <Loki>	       What a lonely life.
May 25 21:30:00 *	       dnm heads straight back to #bbokwarez
May 25 21:30:13 <dnm>	       err, s/bbokwarez/bookwarez/
May 25 21:30:30 <dnm>	       I don't like this repetitve churning disk noise on boot up.
May 25 21:30:58 <malaclyps>    dnm: just talked to the moderator ... he was saying that harlon is a smart guy, but just doesn't understand the tech
May 25 21:31:01 <malaclyps>    well, du
May 25 21:31:06 ---	       du/duh :Unknown command
May 25 21:31:22 <malaclyps>    is someone going to blog the $5 for citizen 513?
May 25 21:31:29 <dnm>	       malaclyps: Apparently.
May 25 21:31:31 <malaclyps>    i think jerrypournelle has already publicised the case
May 25 21:31:40 <dnm>	       malaclyps: I would, but no one reads my blog for that kind of thing.
May 25 21:31:59 <malaclyps>    i was going to do a story about in NTK about a year ago, but we couldn't see the news angle - they've been going after that guy for years
May 25 21:32:02 <dnm>	       I'm still trying to make an image of text so I can make Citizen 513 shirts
May 25 21:32:08 <malaclyps>    hehe
May 25 21:32:25 ---	       tvoj is now known as tvoj_
May 25 21:32:43 <malaclyps>    okay, i'm going to go hang out with the klingons and the girls